Are Muslims really trust worthy?

[flew-da-coup]

Any comments on this thread?

[docbyers]

Silence is concurrence.

[flew-da-coup]

I guess your right Doc. I gues enough was said.

[clacoste]

I spent ten years total working in Saudi Arabia.  Wouldn't trust any of them, although some seemed nice enough and pleasant to work with.  Sleazy socieity, and I haven't seen a worse one anywhere.  While I can't complain - they paid me well enough and generally lived up to the contracts - treatment of foreign workers from the third world, particularly domestic workers, was barbaric beyond words.  We invaded the wrong country...

Do a google on 'maid abuse Saudi Arabia'.  That'll do for starters...

[docbyers]

Black Tuesday: The Last Day of the World
by Robert Spencer

As the European Union., United Nations and United States contrive to fund the Palestinian Authority despite declarations that they would never aid Hamas; as the Russians rush to aid Iran's nuclear ambitions; and as America is ever more riven by furious disagreement over the prosecution of the terror war, a historical analogy is useful to put things in perspective.

On Tuesday, May 29, 1453, the armies of the Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II entered Constantinople, breaking through the defenses of a vastly outnumbered and indomitably courageous Byzantine force. Historian Steven Runciman notes what happened next: the Muslim soldiers "slew everyone that they met in the streets, men, women, and children without discrimination. The blood ran in rivers down the steep streets from the heights of Petra toward the Golden Horn. But soon the lust for slaughter was assuaged. The soldiers realized that captives and precious objects would bring them greater profit." (The Fall of Constantinople 1453, Cambridge University Press, 1965, p. 145.)

It has come to be known as Black Tuesday, the Last Day of the World.

The jihadists also entered the Hagia Sophia, which for nearly a thousand years had been the grandest church in Christendom. The faithful had gathered within its hallowed walls to pray during the city's last agony. The Muslims, according to Runciman, halted the celebration of Orthros (morning prayer); the priests, according to legend, took the sacred vessels and disappeared into the cathedral's eastern wall, through which they shall return to complete the divine service one day. Muslim men then killed the elderly and weak and led the rest off into slavery.

Once the Muslims had thoroughly subdued Constantinople, they set out to Islamize it. According to the Muslim chronicler Hoca Sa'deddin, tutor of the 16th-century Sultans Murad III and Mehmed III, "churches which were within the city were emptied of their vile idols and cleansed from the filthy and idolatrous impurities and by the defacement of their images and the erection of Islamic prayer niches and pulpits many monasteries and chapels became the envy of the gardens of Paradise."

Tuesday has been regarded as unlucky by superstitious Greeks ever since.

Why did this happen?

Realpolitik. Short-sighted Byzantine Emperors such as John VI Cantacuzenes made ill-advised alliances with the Ottomans; in 1347 he invited them into Europe to aid them in a dynastic dispute, and they haven't left yet.


Disunity. The Western European powers were themselves disunited and preoccupied with their own affairs. Compounding that was the fact that they couldn't rally much support for a bailout of the Byzantines without an ecclesiastical unity that, when it was affected on paper by the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Emperor, was rejected by the people of the Empire. The force the West finally sent was too small, and it was annihilated by the Muslims at Varna in Bulgaria in 1444. Far too many Westerners didn't see the peril of Constantinople as their peril, and far too many Easterners subscribed to the Byzantine official Lukas Notaras' quip: "Better the turban of the Sultan than the tiara of the Pope."
Meanwhile, the world has forgotten what happened on Black Tuesday, and so many other days like it from India to Spain, and persists in the fantasy that Islam does not contain an imperialist impulse and that Muslims can be admitted without limit into Western countries without any attempt to determine how many would like ultimately to subjugate and Islamize their new countries, the way their forefathers did to Constantinople so long ago.

And today we see the same ill-informed games of realpolitik, pragmatic alliances made with those who would conquer and subjugate us, and the same disunity and finger-pointing at each other instead of unity in the face of this threat to our common survival.

It is fitting that Black Tuesday coincided this year with Memorial Day. For only a strong defense—not just military, but cultural and spiritual, a civilizational defense—will conquer the forces of jihad and keep there from being many more Black Tuesdays, many more Last Days of the World. May we mount that defense, speedily.

[flew-da-coup]

The history of these people is a prophecy of their future. They will not stop because they believe their goal is rightious. Why do we allow them in our military? These people have no right to exist on this earth. Well, one thing is for sure. I want them dead as bad as they want me dead. I don't want my children to have to deal with them when they get older. Islam=EVIL.

[flew-da-coup]

Hitler should have attacked them instead of the Jewish people.

[cobychuck]

From www.contactmusic.com:

A Muslim film festival, which opens in San Francisco on Saturday, will be highlighted by a screening of the Turkish film Valley of the Wolves, an anti-American docudrama that hinges on a July 4, 2003 incident during the Iraq war when U.S. forces captured 11 Turkish soldiers who were actually members of coalition forces. The incident sparked outrage in Turkey after the soldiers were shown with hoods over their heads being marched out of their headquarters at gunpoint. The villain in the film is played by Gary Busey, as a doctor who removes organs from Iraqi prisoners and sells them to hospitals abroad. The $10-million film is the most expensive Turkish film ever made and is one of the country's biggest hits. Last February, one woman, emerging from a theater showing the film in Istanbul, told a BBC reporter: "If I see an American when I get out of here I feel like taking a hood and putting it over their head." 

[cobychuck]

Turkish rush to embrace anti-US film 
By Sarah Rainsford
BBC News in Istanbul 



It is rabidly anti-American, and it is the biggest draw in town.

With a budget of $10m (£5.7m), Valley of the Wolves Iraq is the most expensive film ever made in Turkey - and it is pulling record crowds.

At one of Istanbul's biggest multiplex cinemas the blockbuster is showing on five separate screens and nearly all the seats are sold out. It's the same story across the country.

"I'm back to see it for the second time already," says one student, waiting impatiently outside Screen 10.

"It is anti-American, but we already know what they've done in Iraq. That's the reality. Now we can see it on screen."

The movie opens with a real-life incident: the arrest in July 2003 of Turkish special forces in Sulaymaniyah, northern Iraq.

The soldiers were led out of their headquarters at gunpoint, with hoods over their heads. America later apologised, but it appears the offence ran deep.



At the time Turkey took the incident as national humiliation. In this film the fictional hero sets out for revenge.

From then on, the action pits good Turks against very bad Americans, in a mix of fact and fiction with a deeply nationalistic flavour.

US violence

In one scene, trigger-happy US troops massacre civilians at a wedding party.

In another they firebomb a mosque during evening prayer. There are multiple summary executions.

And for the first time, the real-life abuses by American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison are played out on the big screen.


Middle East expert Cengiz Candar

Even the doctor - played by Gary Busey - is evil, removing human organs from Iraqi prisoners to send to patients in the US, Israel and Britain.

"Our film's a sort of political action," explains script-writer Bahadir Ozdener at the production company's stylish office on the Asian side of Istanbul.

"Maybe 60 or 70% of what happens on screen is factually true. Turkey and America are allies, but Turkey wants to say something to its friend. We want to say the bitter truth. We want to say that this is wrong."

In a mainly Muslim country that has enjoyed a long strategic partnership with the US, Valley of the Wolves has sparked intense interest.

The US ambassador to Ankara was quizzed for his reaction to the film on a major news channel; even Turkey's foreign minister has felt moved to comment on it. Both were anxious to appear conciliatory.



But the film clearly capitalises on a wave of anti-American feeling that peaked with the Sulaymaniyah controversy, but began to swell with preparation for the invasion of Iraq.

Middle East expert Cengiz Candar says the incident in Sulaymaniyah added deep insult to injury in Turkey, where there was already strong opposition to the war across the border.

Fears of nationalism

Cengiz Candar feels relations had started to improve. Now he fears Valley of the Wolves will reignite the embers, with all its talk of defending Turkish honour and pride.

"This film poisons the climate in a way that enhances jingoistic nationalism among Turks," Cengiz complains.

"It's pushing society to be inward-looking and hostile to our allies and would-be allies. This kind of mentality will do no good for Turkey."

Part of the pull for the crowds flocking to cinemas here is certainly the Turkish actors involved.

The film is a spin-off from a cult TV series from the same producers.

That show pitted the all-action hero Polat against the Turkish mafia. But in changing the enemy and the location, the team behind the film appear to have judged the public mood well.

Back at the multiplex there was an all-round vote of approval from the audience for the movie, and general disapproval for the US.

"Everything we've been hearing on the news about Iraq is in this film," one woman says as she emerges from the auditorium.

"We condemn this war and will continue to condemn it. But I don't see America as our fundamental enemy," she adds.

"I'm really upset after this, really upset," an older man says, as rushes away.

"If I see an American when I get out of here I feel like taking a hood and putting it over their head."

The film is due for release in Europe soon. Then it is off to the US.

[docbyers]

I predict the U.S. media will give this film a lot of air time when it arrives here...

Much like The DaVinci Code, the mix of fact and fiction in the film will make it controversial.

[flew-da-coup]

Typical Muslims. They will believe anything another Muslim tells them. I wonder if the film was financed by the terrorist? I am sure you would find traces back to Bin Laden some way.

[PMEL_DEVIL-DOG]

well, working in an Islamic country for the past 10 weeks (got 16 more), I don't trust them. Some are cool, but you never know. They claim to be all holy and sh!t but they all talk about their girlfriends that their wives don't know about....

[docbyers]

NOBODY parties heartier in Europe than a Muslim!  Stop by any business class lounge in Rome, Zurich, or Frankfurt, and watch the Scotch disappear...

When flying into Jeddah on business, I would watch and smile, 'cause you could almost set your watch by it; when you were approaching Saudi airspace, the men would get up, go to the restroom, and come back with the turban and robes, looking very Arabic- quite a change from the tailored European suit he was wearing when he boarded the plane...

Then, leaving there, the pilot would announce when we had left the Kingdom's airspace, and, again, the men would change clothes, return to their seats, and start drinking.

Yep- real devout religious types when they're at home, but get 'em off the farm and they make Oktoberfest look like a bar mitzvah...

[flew-da-coup]

Most don't believe the Quran, they just like violence. They are wicked people that need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Hey Devil_Dog will you kick one in the nuts for me? I would be greatful if you took pictures of the guy curled up on the floor crying. Thanks.

[docbyers]

I like the pi$$ing in Cokes approach.  Harder to photograph, but just as much fun!