Universal Healthcare. Good Idea or Commie Plot?

[MRD]

NY - "Caught on tape: Hospital patient left to die
Emergency room staffers ignored 49-year-old woman who fell to the floor"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25475759/

CA - "Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

Hope you can predict which emergency room is near by, here's two in the US you should avoid.

[flew-da-coup]

NY - "Caught on tape: Hospital patient left to die
Emergency room staffers ignored 49-year-old woman who fell to the floor"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25475759/

CA - "Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

Hope you can predict which emergency room is near by, here's two in the US you should avoid.

This is not an everyday common occurence in the US. Maybe you need the check out Canada's situation.

[griff61]

NY - "Caught on tape: Hospital patient left to die
Emergency room staffers ignored 49-year-old woman who fell to the floor"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25475759/

CA - "Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

Hope you can predict which emergency room is near by, here's two in the US you should avoid.

This is not an everyday common occurence in the US. Maybe you need the check out Canada's situation.

Canada has a lower infant mortality rate than the US, so do most of the OECD countries (also known as members of the G20)
Canada spends less on drugs
Canada has a longer life expectancy
etc, etc
Perhaps you should become familiar with the Canadian system before you bash it.

[MRD]

Mr. Flew-de-coup, it's an everyday occurance in Canada?  Let's see some stats?

As a Canadian born naturalized US Citizen who spent 6 years in the US Army, I think I have more of an insight into the pluses and minus's on this subject than the talking points you constantly regurgitate. 

[flew-da-coup]

NY - "Caught on tape: Hospital patient left to die
Emergency room staffers ignored 49-year-old woman who fell to the floor"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25475759/

CA - "Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

Hope you can predict which emergency room is near by, here's two in the US you should avoid.

This is not an everyday common occurence in the US. Maybe you need the check out Canada's situation.

Canada has a lower infant mortality rate than the US, so do most of the OECD countries (also known as members of the G20)
Canada spends less on drugs
Canada has a longer life expectancy
etc, etc
Perhaps you should become familiar with the Canadian system before you bash it.

Did you bother to read any of my links before you started typing? The Canadian Medical Association acknowledges the big problem with people getting care when needed, but you don't? Are you that brainwashed? I guess you know better than the doctors that work canadas health care day to day.

Perhaps you need to aquaint yourself with the CMA before you glorify it.

I am obviously wasting my time with you. You are blind and refuse to acknowledge fact put out by the CMA. I guess one can't argue with a robot that has been programmed. "Canada's health care is number one, BEEP".

[flew-da-coup]

Mr. Flew-de-coup, it's an everyday occurance in Canada?  Let's see some stats?

As a Canadian born naturalized US Citizen who spent 6 years in the US Army, I think I have more of an insight into the pluses and minus's on this subject than the talking points you constantly regurgitate. 

Please read previous post link to the CMA ( Canadian Medical Assoc.)document.
Obvioulsy you are lacking in the subject and your talking points. I am just regurgitating the CMA

[griff61]

Perhaps you need to aquaint yourself with the CMA before you glorify it.

I am obviously wasting my time with you. You are blind and refuse to acknowledge fact put out by the CMA. I guess one can't argue with a robot that has been programmed. "Canada's health care is number one, BEEP".

I lived in Canada for 22 years, so I am WELL aquainted with the system as a consumer. You keep making pronouncements and never look at the facts. It would seem that you are the programmed response unit.

Your citation (editorial) is 10 years old, there have been a couple changes dealing with waiting lists since then.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/16/1661

You still haven't defined 'weak' or defined where socialism leads.
And you have managed to completely ignore the empirical evidence I've given you.

Who's the robot again?

[flew-da-coup]

Perhaps you need to aquaint yourself with the CMA before you glorify it.

I am obviously wasting my time with you. You are blind and refuse to acknowledge fact put out by the CMA. I guess one can't argue with a robot that has been programmed. "Canada's health care is number one, BEEP".

I lived in Canada for 22 years, so I am WELL aquainted with the system as a consumer. You keep making pronouncements and never look at the facts. It would seem that you are the programmed response unit.

Your citation (editorial) is 10 years old, there have been a couple changes dealing with waiting lists since then.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/16/1661

You still haven't defined 'weak' or defined where socialism leads.
And you have managed to completely ignore the empirical evidence I've given you.

Who's the robot again?

I am sorry you don't understand what a weak country is. Maybe I will leave you with one example. A country full of people who cannot cope with life without having to rely on govenment handouts. A man can provide for his family without the governments help, anything else is less than a man. When I have more time I will try to compile the moutian of problems in the Canadian system and post them. For now I have to provide for my family.

[griff61]

I am sorry you don't understand what a weak country is. Maybe I will leave you with one example. A country full of people who cannot cope with life without having to rely on govenment handouts. A man can provide for his family without the governments help, anything else is less than a man. When I have more time I will try to compile the moutian of problems in the Canadian system and post them. For now I have to provide for my family.

You said you didn't want anyone to put words in your mouth, then you refuse to define what you mean. You also throw comments out like the 'mountains of problems in the Canadian system, but don't have anything that doesn't also occur in the US system.
There are bad experiences everywhere, we just pay double for ours.

Canadians aren't weak and don't depend on the government. I've served along side some very brave Canuckistanians in places like Somalia.
You seem to be sensible in many other ways, yet you tend to generalize about entire populations that you've never lived in.
Healthcare in Canada isn't a handout, it is paid for by taxation rather than inflated premiums paid to a corporation with a profit motive. Therefore it is very much cheaper in Canada.

I hate to 'put words in your mouth', but should we assume that you'll be passing up Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid when retirement comes?

[flew-da-coup]

I am sorry you don't understand what a weak country is. Maybe I will leave you with one example. A country full of people who cannot cope with life without having to rely on govenment handouts. A man can provide for his family without the governments help, anything else is less than a man. When I have more time I will try to compile the moutian of problems in the Canadian system and post them. For now I have to provide for my family.

You said you didn't want anyone to put words in your mouth, then you refuse to define what you mean. You also throw comments out like the 'mountains of problems in the Canadian system, but don't have anything that doesn't also occur in the US system.
There are bad experiences everywhere, we just pay double for ours.

Canadians aren't weak and don't depend on the government. I've served along side some very brave Canuckistanians in places like Somalia.
You seem to be sensible in many other ways, yet you tend to generalize about entire populations that you've never lived in.
Healthcare in Canada isn't a handout, it is paid for by taxation rather than inflated premiums paid to a corporation with a profit motive. Therefore it is very much cheaper in Canada.

I hate to 'put words in your mouth', but should we assume that you'll be passing up Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid when retirement comes?

Social security is a whole new can of worms. I love the fact that I only get ( if it is there when I retire ) a measly 2% return on the money forcefully taken from me. I would love to have my SS going into my 401k. But socialism is stealing the money from me for my own good. Gee, the government really knows how to run things. Taking my money and giving me > 2% return for retirement. Yes I also believe that Social Security is really a raw deal, even worse than Universal Health Care. 

As for weak, well step up and take care of your own family like a man and I wouldn't call them weak.

Just answer me this one question. If Canadian Health Care is so great then why are there private medical practices in Canada? Also, why are they so busy? One would logically think that if the Public Health Care System was so good that the private sector wouldn't exist or at least be empty. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TOO ME.

[griff61]

Just answer me this one question. If Canadian Health Care is so great then why are there private medical practices in Canada? Also, why are they so busy? One would logically think that if the Public Health Care System was so good that the private sector wouldn't exist or at least be empty. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TOO ME.

That would be because the Canadian system is a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM . This has nothing to do with whether or not there can be private practice in Canada. You are confusing the British systems with the Canadian system. The Canadian system basically replaces the health insurance companies, not private practice. Again, that's the UK system.

In Canada, everyone is guaranteed a minimum standard of care, you can but additional insurance to go above and beyond if you wish to. Did you even read a single citation I gave?

You really should look at the details before you condemn something.

That goes for your 'weak' generalization as well.

[clacoste]

I saw an interesting documentary a couple months back on our ethnic station SBS.  Quite a long one...it compared the US system with European, Canadian, and Asian health systems (Australia or New Zealand wasn't surveyed by this program).  While all of them came out better than the US...by better I mean level of treatment for the average person at a cost effective basis....I was very surprised that Taiwan (with a very extensive universal health system) was the winner.  Absolutely superb. Japan was second.  That said...they were all miles ahead of the US in cost effectiveness and also preventive medicine.  And the documentary was an American production...

[clacoste]

Maybe we can have a vote on this site?  Even better have a vote in the USA.....I'm sure all those millionaire doctors would never allow you to do it....and I'm bloody sure what the result of that vote would be if - only you could...

[griff61]

Maybe we can have a vote on this site?  Even better have a vote in the USA.....I'm sure all those millionaire doctors would never allow you to do it....and I'm bloody sure what the result of that vote would be if - only you could...

The doctors aren't the millionaires, the insurance and pharmaceutical executives are.

[clacoste]

Actually, unless they're stupid - and most wouldn't be....they are millionaires.  Average annual salary for a family medicine doctor is close to $200k.  Specialists make almost twice that on average.  Of course that doesn't include perks, bonuses, investment income, or tax minimalization techniques...