Low pay

[zz]

Anyone notice how many PMEL jobs are showing up on the various PMEL oriented sites? The biggest problem I see are all the cal labs in the expensive cites (LA, SD, Dallas, SF, ect) offering crap wages.  60K per year might sound good to a young tech, but in the expensive locales, 60k is slave wages.  It's no suprise that those employers are always looking for more techs, not because they are expanding, but due to the fact that they don't want to pay what we're worth.  If you want a GOOD PMEL tech, you need to up your minimum requirements and up the base salary.  You'll only get what you pay for. 

[Broken_Wings]

You should consider registering zz and posting something like this in the general forum.

[PMEL_DEVIL-DOG]

Agreed, B-W, hey ZZ, sign up, bro...

[CalBoy]

Dude
  I know what your talking about and as a owner of a small lab I can tell you that it is not the case of owners getting rich beyond your imagination.  People view us (metrologist) as a neccessary evil and only see a sticker and a cert.  Labs are so competitive these days where profit margins aren't like what they used to be.  I know of a lab that will do the work on a large list say 300 items for $20. 00 a piece which sucks for people trying to keep integrity in our industry and it gives us all a bad name.  When you calculate your overhead it is dam near impossible to print certs for that.  I have been talking with other lab owners to see how they can opperate like that however there is a lot of resistance to change pricing structures that are antiquated.  We have plumbers in my town making $125. 00 an hour.  Go figure

[Newbie]

I agree, thanks to 17025 all labs are created equal! Most customers have no real understanding of what we dod and its importance, if we dont take the time to educate them things will never changed

[flew-da-coup]

Dude
  I know what your talking about and as a owner of a small lab I can tell you that it is not the case of owners getting rich beyond your imagination.  People view us (metrologist) as a neccessary evil and only see a sticker and a cert.  Labs are so competitive these days where profit margins aren't like what they used to be.  I know of a lab that will do the work on a large list say 300 items for $20. 00 a piece which sucks for people trying to keep integrity in our industry and it gives us all a bad name.  When you calculate your overhead it is dam near impossible to print certs for that.  I have been talking with other lab owners to see how they can opperate like that however there is a lot of resistance to change pricing structures that are antiquated.  We have plumbers in my town making $125. 00 an hour.  Go figure

I agree with you. Too many labs are charging to little money. I know some labs charge almost nothing for Phys. D. cals so that they can get the customer's electronic business.

[jimmyc]

can you blame the user,  are they getting a good deal?  unfortunately there are companies out there who only want the sticker so they can be compliant in their programs.  they really don't have the training to understand that accurate measurements cause less rework/warranty work.  in the end it could cost a company their professional reputation.  we all know the companies we would by from, and wouldn't.  if we had to spend a little more, it wouldn't be an issue because we would know the quality was there. 

[Hornet]

In today's world the bottom line is money.  When companies tie cost savings into your performance reviews, it drives people to search out the lower cost providers.  To break this mentality the change has to come from the top and trickle down.  Most management consider calibration nothing more than a requirement that has to be met.  Accuracy of the equipment is not of concern. 

[ck454ss]

Im a person who works for a large corporation and controls hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of calibration work.   Ive been reading your posts about how Calibration Techs deserve more money.  (I am a PMEL Tech myself).   One thing I take as the probably the most important deciding factor when I decided which lab to use is customer service.   I have eliminated labs from my approved supplier list because of poor service even though they may of had better uncertainties.   3rd party labs need to remember they are providing a SERVICE to companies.   If you want to charge me more for my calibrations what am I getting in return.   The excuse of "We provide a better cal" to me is bull.   My lab does as good of a cal as most people.   This can be proven by participating in Proficiency Tests-Do I get a reading within my uncertainty.   Customer satisfaction is key.   If I call you, I better get an answer, your tech better be ontime for his onsite and not take 50 smoke breaks.   Your paperwork better be right and for heavans sake read the PO I send to you to check for special instructions.   Im willing to pay more money for service.   Dont tell me your better show me.

Im sure Ill get hate mail for this but this thread is an excellent discussion.

[bradley563]

Im a person who works for a large corporation and controls hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of calibration work.   Ive been reading your posts about how Calibration Techs deserve more money.  (I am a PMEL Tech myself).   One thing I take as the probably the most important deciding factor when I decided which lab to use is customer service.   I have eliminated labs from my approved supplier list because of poor service even though they may of had better uncertainties.   3rd party labs need to remember they are providing a SERVICE to companies.   If you want to charge me more for my calibrations what am I getting in return.   The excuse of "We provide a better cal" to me is bull.   My lab does as good of a cal as most people.   This can be proven by participating in Proficiency Tests-Do I get a reading within my uncertainty.   Customer satisfaction is key.   If I call you, I better get an answer, your tech better be ontime for his onsite and not take 50 smoke breaks.   Your paperwork better be right and for heavans sake read the PO I send to you to check for special instructions.   Im willing to pay more money for service.   Dont tell me your better show me.

Im sure Ill get hate mail for this but this thread is an excellent discussion.

I dont see anything wrong with what you wrote.  I work as a field calibration tech for a company COOP used to work for.  When I show up to an on-site I have contacted the customer minimun 2 weeks out to remind them of the scheduled visit.  When I arrive I make contact and let them know that I am working for them.  Some of the times they have had problems getting everything together.  I let them know that this is no problem I am flexible I can work Saturdays or even stay a day longer than scheduled.  But to me the bottom line is.......if they are not happy, then when it comes time for contract renewal they might look elsewhere.

I really enjoy the company I work for and take pride in my work.  I have read one or two bad comments about my employer, but I believe the ones who wrote them are misinformed.  (just my opinion)

[Magicman]

3rd party labs need to remember they are providing a SERVICE to companies.   

CK I agree with you on this statement.   I recently retired from the Air Force and started with a large cal company and was shocked at the mentality of the all of the staff.     They seem to beleive that the customer should be happy we graced their facility.
With this being said, I am starting to understand where this comes from.   Most of the companies we go onsite to treat us like third class citizens.   I have had an engineer tell me I better hurry my a$$ up.   Like others have stated, companies only want the cert and sticker.   The only way I see this being corrected is to have more people like you in positions like yours.   We are only kidding ourselves if we believe that we can convince the bean counters and management that we provide more than just certs and stickers.

[Bryan]

ck454ss, no argument here.   

[Newbiejeff]

Sitting here reading thru some of the old post and I have to agree with CAlboy. . . We have a lot more control than most people realize when you visit a customer for the 1st time take samples of your procedures, explain to them how the dat should mirror the procedure.  You have to come equipped to let them know not all labs are equal despite what most believe (fueled in part by ISO/IEC 17025).  Perfect example a just met with a customer who was having spectrum analyzers calibrated by an ISO 9001 and ISO 17025 lab that was less than one page of data :-o :-o On a 3 GHz spectrum analyzer :? :? You tell me how this was done correctly :?

[flew-da-coup]

Sitting here reading thru some of the old post and I have to agree with CAlboy. . . We have a lot more control than most people realize when you visit a customer for the 1st time take samples of your procedures, explain to them how the dat should mirror the procedure.  You have to come equipped to let them know not all labs are equal despite what most believe (fueled in part by ISO/IEC 17025).  Perfect example a just met with a customer who was having spectrum analyzers calibrated by an ISO 9001 and ISO 17025 lab that was less than one page of data On a 3 GHz spectrum analyzer You tell me how this was done correctly

Actually a 17025 calibration has to check all specifications. What you are speaking of comes from lazy techs and a inept QA.

[spencerslack]

what a great topic.    how about a metrologist union to help the techs get proper pay, i think its the only way to relieve the stress of techs to hot stamp equipment because the shop they work for has bid  an onsite way to low.    There is strength in numbers and if all the techs nation wide had a union to lean on to help get fair wages, then all the shops would bid jobs based on actual cal cost, and not just try to under bid each other.    plumbers and electricians get paid the way they do because of unions.    Let me know what you think.    As long as mom and pops are hiring unqualified techs and under bidding every job in town to customers who are not required to have 17025 cals then the pay is going to get worse not better.   HALLA BACK!!! ZZ IS RIGHT ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!