Plenty of jobs openings....

[skolito]

Um, am I wrong but on most equipment if it passes the performance test and does not need adjustment then you do not need the software. How is it not a nist tracable cal? I followed the mfr procedure and it passed. The 33k/navair pro do not have software and they are accepted methods (company/auditor approval of course) if I follow that the military does not change dates, and if you use the software and it automatically adjusts the unit is that not ADJUSTMENT and not verification which is a ton more paperwork for the average tech.

[flew-da-coup]

Um, am I wrong but on most equipment if it passes the performance test and does not need adjustment then you do not need the software. How is it not a nist tracable cal? I followed the mfr procedure and it passed. The 33k/navair pro do not have software and they are accepted methods (company/auditor approval of course) if I follow that the military does not change dates, and if you use the software and it automatically adjusts the unit is that not ADJUSTMENT and not verification which is a ton more paperwork for the average tech.

  . Did you accidently post in the wrong thread?

[skolito]

I work on way too much LeCroy gear that was so far out of cal from Sypris customers, that I know that they didn't have LeCroy cal software. Tektronics, etc. etc. If you don't want to buy Fluke's 'MetCal gold', or LeCroy software, your being foolish. Sypris is one of those folks. Even if you have the software, and your simply stickering gear, your not even close to being NIST traceable, or ISO conforming.

And having been an end user to these services, that pisses me off. If I helped write a process document for manufacturing, aviation, or whatever, obviously we all depend on the numbers.

I know I'll never depend on a piece of gear from Sypris again. Not to mention, they can't repair, cal, or verify a damn thing. Or they're not willing. Usually not willing.

Guess I should have quoted this guy

[flew-da-coup]

I recommend reading around.  The answer is posted here.

However in my reading I discovered that the O. P.  worked for Sypris at the time of that post.  However if you read around the forum you will discover this person has moved on in the last few months.

If you are looking for a PMEL job or related job then you must not just rely on one web site for postings.  Even the admin has a link to the original PMEL job site that most of us first heard about.

www. pmel. org <- I read until I reach X posts this will be parsed out.  Try the bookmarks section of this website also.

Also consider that the original post was made over one year ago and that information may no longer be valid.

Thanks for the info 'Broken_Wings'.

Sorry you worked for Sypris, we get a lot of work as a result. In my experience, Sypris has does a sticker deal, 'cal void' stickers over the old one, infinite years and hours between cal, etc. I'd happily go back to Iraq before I ever work for a company like these folks.

But I digress.

I work on way too much LeCroy gear that was so far out of cal from Sypris customers, that I know that they didn't have LeCroy cal software. Tektronics, etc. etc. If you don't want to buy Fluke's 'MetCal gold', or LeCroy software, your being foolish. Sypris is one of those folks. Even if you have the software, and your simply stickering gear, your not even close to being NIST traceable, or ISO conforming.

And having been an end user to these services, that pisses me off. If I helped write a process document for manufacturing, aviation, or whatever, obviously we all depend on the numbers.

I know I'll never depend on a piece of gear from Sypris again. Not to mention, they can't repair, cal, or verify a damn thing. Or they're not willing. Usually not willing.

Maybe I missed something. How does not using cal software make a cal non-tracable to NIST?

[richlundeen]

I recommend reading around.  The answer is posted here.

However in my reading I discovered that the O. P.  worked for Sypris at the time of that post.  However if you read around the forum you will discover this person has moved on in the last few months.

If you are looking for a PMEL job or related job then you must not just rely on one web site for postings.  Even the admin has a link to the original PMEL job site that most of us first heard about.

www. pmel. org <- I read until I reach X posts this will be parsed out.  Try the bookmarks section of this website also.

Also consider that the original post was made over one year ago and that information may no longer be valid.

Thanks for the info 'Broken_Wings'.

Sorry you worked for Sypris, we get a lot of work as a result. In my experience, Sypris has does a sticker deal, 'cal void' stickers over the old one, infinite years and hours between cal, etc. I'd happily go back to Iraq before I ever work for a company like these folks.

But I digress.

I work on way too much LeCroy gear that was so far out of cal from Sypris customers, that I know that they didn't have LeCroy cal software. Tektronics, etc. etc. If you don't want to buy Fluke's 'MetCal gold', or LeCroy software, your being foolish. Sypris is one of those folks. Even if you have the software, and your simply stickering gear, your not even close to being NIST traceable, or ISO conforming.

And having been an end user to these services, that pisses me off. If I helped write a process document for manufacturing, aviation, or whatever, obviously we all depend on the numbers.

I know I'll never depend on a piece of gear from Sypris again. Not to mention, they can't repair, cal, or verify a damn thing. Or they're not willing. Usually not willing.

Maybe I missed something. How does not using cal software make a cal non-tracable to NIST?

Thanks for the response, skolito.

A cal ver, per mfg specs, is usually 'good enough', however, LeCroy and Fluke software will do a hell of a lot more accurate cals that we ever can manually, that automatically generates a NIST traceable cert. Of course, you don't provide data unless it's requested, or paid for, but you have it on hand electronically forever. Our current Senior Engineer, retired from NIST after 30 years, he (and I) ensure this procedure is adhered to. As you know, ISO, FAA, NAVLAP, require this traceability, and it's in the best interests of a good (GREAT) cal lab to document everything.

Like I said, I've been the end user, burned when trying to compare numbers with TM gear in Malaysia, Thailand, China and Singapore. I worked 9 years for Seagate (hard drive MFG). We experienced such a delta issue with the gear we had in different locations, that the the process came into question. We were losing millions of dollars a day, a 'time to market' issue. I was wishing I was back in the Marine Corps, I'll tell you that much. I was In Quality Engineering at the time. Sypris was tossed as soon as possible, not long before I got involved with our cal program.

Once again, I will say, Sypris had better get their poop in a group. Any cal person with integrity that's touched a piece of gear for them knows, whether it's a Fluke DMM, or a LeCroy O-scope, we've seen it. You can't polish a turd. Take a guess why Sypris isn't the calibration vendor for Seagate Technologies worldwide.

Me. That's why. You don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.

[flew-da-coup]

That cal software does not automatically generate a NIST traceable cert? What do you mean? Traceability comes from your standards not software. The data sheets these programs generate are not certs at all. They are just data sheets. I am not trying to jump on you , but what you say is wrong. I must still be missing something. IF you calibrate a piece of equipment manually with traceable standards and the UUT meets the Manufacturers specs. Then it is a valid calibration.  Please explain why that is not enough? 

Just what did Sypris overlook on the calibration of the LeCroy Scopes? The fact is that Sypris uses Fluke MetCal software.  So what was the issue?

[jimmyc]

automated software can never make a more accurate measurement than a manual calibration, though it can do it faster.  many automated programs substitute standards that are already in use for accuracies.  one example is the AF TO for doing 33120's calls for an ac voltage standard to verify places where the std may not be 4:1 yet in the fluke procedures it is not used, nor are the AC current shunts.  Remember an automated cal procedure only "pushes" the same buttons as a technician, but can make no real determination of what is happening during the measurement.  it can only decide what someone programmed in as a pass or go.  the idea that the cal tech is replaceable by an automated program is what is driving labs to think they can rely on those programs.   

[Hornet]

Automated software can easily downsize three techs to one.  Anyone working on the commercial side has probably seen this happen.

[Newbie]

I have worked for Sypris in the past. They do have MetCal Gold and SureCal.  All the guys I worked with were very good techs. I worked at their Primary Standards Lab in Orlando. Everyone knows here that if I think a company is full of it I will tell you. Matter of fact one of my former employers that I would never recommend someone to go too is the contract lab @ Robins AFB. The guys there are great tech and many are good friends, but the promotional practices are stupid ( I have been told that they have changed). I had a lot of beefs with KAI there @ Robins. However, Sypris was one of the best employers that I have ever worked for. Matter of fact they have more capability then most labs. Speaking of tracability many of the standards they use in the PSL are cal'd by NIST. Don't you think it is a little unfair to say those things about a company you have never worked for? Trust me, Sypris is a legit cal company. Now you want to hear a company that is a joke try HSCI in Gainsville,Ga. here is their scope of accreditation http://hscilabs.com/pdf/PerryJohnsonLabAccreditation.pdf. Read their pressure uncerts. 0-20kpsi +/- 5.8ppm. Now this is a company you have to watch out for.

You went from discussing the capabilities of the lab and calibration pratices to promotional pratices, JUST maybe you didnt deserve a promotion. The same things that you say about Sypris and there capabilities hold true for the lab at Warner Robins.

[flew-da-coup]

Keith, why are you attacking me? You don't even know me. 

If you go back and read the whole thread then maybe you would understand what I was saying. And Robins AFB having a few MetCal procedures doesn't have anything to do with my comment.

I wasn't busting on Robins capability either. Matter of fact it's a nice lab. My complaint was management. You have no clue to what was going on there. When I left within 2 months 14 people left and almost all of us for the same reason. So please stop psycho- analyzing my work performance without the facts.

By the way, I changed subject for a moment to show a lack of bias for former employers. So what is the problem?

[Newbie]

YOU just so sen-si-tive 

[flew-da-coup]

Ok???

[CalBoy]

Coop
   So where do you work cause I was going through the post and noticed you've been at three different labs recently.  Do they all suck?

[flew-da-coup]

Coop
   So where do you work cause I was going through the post and noticed you've been at three different labs recently.  Do they all suck?

No, My last company was  a good company. There were just things that we couldn't work out and it's a shame, plus I am from Atlanta and wanted to come back ( I was in Florida for 2 yrs ). The one before that was a DoD contract lab ( enough said ). The company I work for now is in Atlanta and I like the management. I just had only one company that I ( contract lab )  didn't care for and worked for them for 3 years.