Almost seems like he is a scammer of some sort? He/she shows up out of no where, has terrible english, and is bashing people left and right. Anybody know who this person is? Did some random outsider who really knows nothing about calibration jump onto our forum? I mean he talks a good game but skirts just outside of going into anything specific.
I noticed the same thing.
I am waiting for him to start selling us shoes or purses or some thing.
Quote from: USMCPMEL on 08-31-2012 -- 12:47:10
I am waiting for him to start selling us shoes or purses or some thing.
Probably a better career choice...
Wow, I thought I had issues!
Well whoever he/she is worked at the ASPSL as a "writer" in the past, and I quote with misspellings:
"I do, because I used to work there, creating the TO's. Let me know if you need any of those positions filled, becasue we all know that it's not an easy task and training is not cheap!!"
I've been here since 1996 and lots of folks came through these doors. We/I (me and my mouse) have an idea who it may be, but I am not going to call this person out. If they have some big boy pants, they will step forward. If not, well, it just shows you why they aren't here anymore.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying "because I used to work there" Really...
Or at least an apology to all of us on here that use this as a place of ideas and knowledge...
I have had some people get on my case because I said something they did not like about their product. But I also had someone at NCSL tell me they like my honest OPINIONS.
I like public forums, I think they are very good for companies to keep in touch with the community and their customers. when it us used correctly. But people have to stand behind what they say and their point of view. If you set up an account a just rant, it doesn't do any good, because it will say pinger at first. Then if all you do is rant, people will soon have no trust you or your comments, and they will just stop reading your posts. There are a few people, on here I have statused as "Ignored All Posts!"
On the other side, I read something on LinkedIn about starting your own company blog site, so you can control the online reputation of your company. I also think this just as bad. The whole point to blog site is to connect your company with your customers. If you suppress every slightly negative comment, People will soon realize it and stop using the blog site. It only takes one deleted post for customers to loose confidence in the site. (There are some blog sites I don't visit for this reason as well.)
Mike
I stand behind everything I write.
How about reporting a user to a moderator if you feel they are being a troll and counter productive to this board before we create threads to question or bash a specific user?
Did I hurt problems feelings? Funny how I get a nasty gram for personal attacks for simply pointing out stupidity and now there's an entire tread dedicated to personal attacks against me.
No I never worked there as a kpro writer, but have been in the building.
SMC, I reget staying this by making you look incompetent on the GIDEP thread even if what I said was true
You asked who I was? Obviously I'm the CALGod like your already said. In reality you are the one playing cal god by using GIDEP procedures for commercial work and if you all want to get angry with me for getting a bad tone for pointing out bad practices that could place human lives in danger than so be it.
Quote from: skidaddle skaduski on 09-05-2012 -- 10:53:06
In reality you are the one playing cal god by using GIDEP procedures for commercial work and if you all want to get angry with me for getting a bad tone for pointing out bad practices that could place human lives in danger than so be it.
Explain to me how letting my customer know what GIDEP procedure I use, as it is stated on the cert, is an issue. As a a PMEL Tech it annoys me when people in my field think they are the know all. You have to do it this way or have to do that way or it isnt correct...blah blah. Last time I checked its the customers responsibility to ensure there equipment is calibrated in accordance to THERE needs not mine. The only bad practice is a customer who doesnt pay attention to there certs and actually review them for content. But thats society today. Its someone elses responsibility to make sure things are done in accordance to how I want it done not mine.
imho of course.
Huh
There are some inconsistencies in this thread and the Calibration Procedures (T.O.s) thread.....Just saying
:-D Wait...I want some hair :mrgreen: I want Hair and horns...damn it! :evil:
It's all good... seriously... smile, enjoy the fact you have integrity, which goes for everyone here. Each of us has a point of view. We may not all agree, we can even go as far as agreeing to disagree.
You seem to have your head on your shoulders pretty straight and seem to know what you're talking about in your previous posts, before this past Friday...
I personally do not have a problem with you... we all need to watch out tact when it comes to other people and respecting our PMEL brother/sisterhood. This is a tight knit (or nut) group of people. We all came up thru the PMEL ranks in out own respective path... Hope you have a great day... even an awesome day. So long as the Beer is flowing...
Not sure how much of that was directed at me. Sorry If I offended anyone as that was not my intention.
And like Mike, I use my real name here instead of hiding behind the veil of anonymity.
Quote from: CalLabSolutions on 09-04-2012 -- 09:33:49
I stand behind everything I write.
Quote from: ck454ss on 09-05-2012 -- 11:33:04
Quote from: skidaddle skaduski on 09-05-2012 -- 10:53:06
In reality you are the one playing cal god by using GIDEP procedures for commercial work and if you all want to get angry with me for getting a bad tone for pointing out bad practices that could place human lives in danger than so be it.
Explain to me how letting my customer know what GIDEP procedure I use, as it is stated on the cert, is an issue. As a a PMEL Tech it annoys me when people in my field think they are the know all. You have to do it this way or have to do that way or it isnt correct...blah blah. Last time I checked its the customers responsibility to ensure there equipment is calibrated in accordance to THERE needs not mine. The only bad practice is a customer who doesnt pay attention to there certs and actually review them for content. But thats society today. Its someone elses responsibility to make sure things are done in accordance to how I want it done not mine.
CK
Like Skiddaddle, I know for a fact that this year the Air Force was still removing entire sections of the manufacturers "warrented specification" because it was not needed for Air Force requirements. (Look at some of the Tektronix DSO 70000 series oscilloscopes procedures.) Unless you verify Table 1 of 33K-procedures to the manufacturers specifications, you do not know if you are meeting customer requirements.
ISO 17025 has an entire section on Procedures, and requires that the calibration laboratory contacts the customer to ensure that the calibrations meet the customer requirements. Many times the customer does not have access to the GIDEP procedures and have no clue as to what specifications they are getting certified. The customer purchased the equipment based on those specific manufacturers specifications and expect a full calibration based upon those fully procured, warrented manufacturers' specifications. It is not the customers responsibility to ensure that the procedure YOU use is correct. It is OUR responsibility as calibration technicians to verify that the customer needs are completely met before we slap a sticker on the equipment.
Skiddaddle, though you may lack some tact on your approach, keep the technicians on their toes and help us ensure that the work is getting done right no matter which laboratory they are currently employed.
Quote from: CalDude on 09-05-2012 -- 20:47:59
CK
Like Skiddaddle, I know for a fact that this year the Air Force was still removing entire sections of the manufacturers "warrented specification" because it was not needed for Air Force requirements. (Look at some of the Tektronix DSO 70000 series oscilloscopes procedures.) Unless you verify Table 1 of 33K-procedures to the manufacturers specifications, you do not know if you are meeting customer requirements.
ISO 17025 has an entire section on Procedures, and requires that the calibration laboratory contacts the customer to ensure that the calibrations meet the customer requirements. Many times the customer does not have access to the GIDEP procedures and have no clue as to what specifications they are getting certified. The customer purchased the equipment based on those specific manufacturers specifications and expect a full calibration based upon those fully procured, warrented manufacturers' specifications. It is not the customers responsibility to ensure that the procedure YOU use is correct. It is OUR responsibility as calibration technicians to verify that the customer needs are completely met before we slap a sticker on the equipment.
I agree, for the most part. I am a customer who sends some equipment to a "Third Party House". It is MY responsibility to ensure Im getting the correct calibration not yours. Any new Cal Supplier I use goes through a process of me sending a list of equipment to be calibrated and then them sending me either the procedure or data points with tolerances so I can review them ahead of time to ensure they meet my needs. Many times I will remove many of these points as I dont need many of the functions calibrated on equipment. Like benchtop meters only used for DC or only for AC Volts etc. Sometimes I will add points to be tested as it is important for my requirements and not necessarily a mfg requirement.
You state its OUR responsibility to ensure the customer needs are met but how can you if you have no idea what the customer needs are? I develop a partnership with my suppliers not just a "Fast Food" mentality with them. I dont expect any sticker to be slapped on my equipment but I will ensure every need I want has been met by my "Third Party" calibration. I trust no one but myself to ensure things are done right.
Ultimately I(The Customer) am responsible for ensuring the calibration work performed meets the requirement of my business needs not the Third Party Calibration House.
Quote from: ck454ss on 09-06-2012 -- 07:33:54
I agree, for the most part. I am a customer who sends some equipment to a "Third Party House". It is MY responsibility to ensure Im getting the correct calibration not yours. Any new Cal Supplier I use goes through a process of me sending a list of equipment to be calibrated and then them sending me either the procedure or data points with tolerances so I can review them ahead of time to ensure they meet my needs. Many times I will remove many of these points as I dont need many of the functions calibrated on equipment. Like benchtop meters only used for DC or only for AC Volts etc. Sometimes I will add points to be tested as it is important for my requirements and not necessarily a mfg requirement.
You state its OUR responsibility to ensure the customer needs are met but how can you if you have no idea what the customer needs are? I develop a partnership with my suppliers not just a "Fast Food" mentality with them. I dont expect any sticker to be slapped on my equipment but I will ensure every need I want has been met by my "Third Party" calibration. I trust no one but myself to ensure things are done right.
Ultimately I(The Customer) am responsible for ensuring the calibration work performed meets the requirement of my business needs not the Third Party Calibration House.
I don't know what part of this is confusing for people and why it is so controversial. Yes, the customer has the ultimate responsibility to ensure that they send their equipment to a cal house of good standing.
The responsibility of the cal house is to communicate their procedures and processes with the customer, PERIOD. If the customer isn't quite sure what their ultimate needs are (lacking an engineer or metrologist of some type to understand what particular aspects of the equipment they truly need), the calibrating technician should do a full calibration to the manufacturers warranted specifications.
ISO 17025 in essence states that it is the cal house's responsibility to communicate the details of each calibration with the customer. Most customers don't have access to GIDEP to review those procedures (as access to GIDEP requires that the customer is currently working on government contracts). Jim Bob's Amateur Radio Repair Shop may not have the most knowledgeable people working there, and the cal techs should never assume that the customers know everything about calibration.
The matter is actually quite simple. If the equipment is not fully checked it, it is a limitation. It doesn't matter what the cal house's quality manual states. It doesn't matter if the quality manual states the equipment is "Calibrated to report of measurement" (as some labs tend to use). If the cal tech doesn't run performance checks on each of the OEM's warranted parameters, if the cal house hasn't communicated the details of the procedures in use (and the customer does not have access to the procedures), it is a limitation. If the cal house and/or technician do not communicate that limitation with the customer, it is in essence submitting a false documentation and your customer can and should take you to court over the matter.
Before we get too far down the road, maybe we should get these posts on the GIDEP thread where it belongs.
If you like what someone else posted, make a good comment, if you don't keep it to your self and don't let it bother you. we should keep the forum as clean as possible.
Quote from: spanishfly25 on 09-06-2012 -- 20:40:54
If you like what someone else posted, make a good comment, if you don't keep it to your self and don't let it bother you. we should keep the forum as clean as possible.
I totally disagree. A forum should be an exchange of ideas not a "Barney" love fest. Oh, Mr. Treekiller and Phys print some more pages for me.
Quote from: Squire on 09-07-2012 -- 00:36:29
Quote from: spanishfly25 on 09-06-2012 -- 20:40:54
If you like what someone else posted, make a good comment, if you don't keep it to your self and don't let it bother you. we should keep the forum as clean as possible.
I totally disagree. A forum should be an exchange of ideas not a "Barney" love fest. Oh, Mr. Treekiller and Phys print some more pages for me.
No one said it should be a "Barney" love fest. Personal attacks saying someone is part of the problem or doesn't know what he's talking about, just because he doesn't fully agree with you should not be allowed. Even though some people might take offence at your little reposte directed at me; I just remember the many times you sought me out to give you information to do your job and I feel that you're asking for more since I know you have to use 33K T.O.s. Just wish you'd be more specific with the information you require to do your current job. I'd be glad to help.
Quote from: DBasi on 09-07-2012 -- 08:39:24
Question: How do you block Skiddaddle and his 2 other personas? I really do not care to read his posts no matter which account he is using.
Thanks.
Eric
Said the person with 3 posts. Try the ignore feature, worked for me.
It took me a moment to realize what you meant. My first answer was going to be "I don't know if that's possible, why would someone want to block themselves"? Now that I understand, I am going to tell you something right here and right now. If I have something to say to someone then I'm going to say it to their faces or not hide who I am. I think it's cute you think I may be skidaddle. I happen to know him personally and can say that I am much prettier than that man. All of that aside if you have a problem with me personally then state your case instead of comparing me to someone else you are being agitated by. It's childish and honestly, a little beneath you.
Wow...hey Eric, if your going to come into this thread and try to start bashing people, come armed and come prepared.
Quote from: HarryBee on 09-07-2012 -- 09:14:35
I happen to know him personally and can say that I am much prettier than that man.
Really.. Is that what this site have boiled down to... a beauty contest.
This is a metrology site guys so I have to ask...
What standard are you using to measure pretty?
And is is traceable?
And are you willing to write a paper on how to measure pretty?
:-D Some days this site cracks me up..
LMAO, I know. I refused to get on here for years because of all the drama but decided to join in some of the fun.
On a serious note, the standard for pretty is me :lol:
Quote from: CalDude on 09-07-2012 -- 09:27:51
Wow...hey Eric, if your going to come into this thread and try to start bashing people, come armed and come prepared.
Everyone knows that you don't bash people with arms. Use bricks, it hurts more.
And I believe there is standard for measuring prettiness. Don't quote me on this, but if memory serves me you use ANSI standard 5EX1.E to measure prettiness. I believe it uses optical standards and there are some uncertainty parameters. Just watch out for the parallax errors.
Quote from: HarryBee on 09-07-2012 -- 09:36:55
LMAO, I know. I refused to get on here for years because of all the drama but decided to join in some of the fun.
On a serious note, the standard for pretty is me :lol:
The standard for handsome is PMEL Whore. If they are synonymous then I disagree with you.
crawling back under a rock and out of the sunlight.
Quote from: CalLabSolutions on 09-07-2012 -- 09:31:04
:-D Some days this site cracks me up..
+1, I won't block anybody, this is too much fun. I reiterate my earlier statement, "PMEL Guys a bunch of whiney little girls" HAHA
Quote from: Broken_Wings on 09-07-2012 -- 10:17:35
The standard for handsome is PMEL Whore.
Why thank you very much, a girl likes to be noticed!
Ok seriously, and I'm not even sure I got this in the right thread anymore.
We all know 3rd party and military metrology are 2 different animals. That doesn't preclude us from doing the best job that we can within the parameters of our application. Most of us have been in the military and understand how the military does it, many times cald to a spec as required for the application rather than to manuf specs, T.O. directed limitations, 4:1 TAR if possible etc, etc. For those that haven't worked commercial, you may not get it completely. It is a business, time is money, and while it is the users responsibility to tell you what they need, as metrologists we have a responsibility to "help them" with this. Most, not all, civilian applications are less critical than military requirements, don't get me wrong people can still die if we screw it up. As somebody earlier in this thread, or the other one somewhere said, it is a partnership between the customer and the lab to get him what he needs. FWIW, I disagree with the selling of stickers just to get the item out, for a customer to have a "certified" item. We need to be responsible with the procedure and specs we use for the customer. It's their job to understand what they have, it's our job to help them. That's why in the military labs you don't limit an item by saying "Step 4.2 not cald", the customer has no idea what that means.
Don't check your integrity at the door.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. credit Dennis Miller
I think I've heard of a horror story or two about past technicians at Base-X that would limit like that.
You are right PMEL .. WHORE but I think the issue is whether or not cal'n to full specs is considered a limitation if the certs state otherwise. I have a very similiar issue where I am working now and I can tell you that the mission is critical.
Most contractors for the Gov use sub contracted cal services. I believe this fact over rules your statement about how critical it is for commercial business. I'm sticking to my convictions that it shall be a limited calibration. I convinced all the higher ups where I work currently that this is the truth. IDK, maybe it's just my own school of though. I wokrked commercial before, I "get it". I have no problem I guess if others see differently.
I like how these threads keep jumping from subject to subject. I don't know where I am or what it has to do with PMEL. Hey, look. Blueberries!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/PattsBlueberries.jpg/220px-PattsBlueberries.jpg)
Quote from: HarryBee on 09-07-2012 -- 12:42:08
You are right PMEL .. WHORE but I think the issue is whether or not cal'n to full specs is considered a limitation if the certs state otherwise. I have a very similiar issue where I am working now and I can tell you that the mission is critical.
Most contractors for the Gov use sub contracted cal services. I believe this fact over rules your statement about how critical it is for commercial business. I'm sticking to my convictions that it shall be a limited calibration. I convinced all the higher ups where I work currently that this is the truth. IDK, maybe it's just my own school of though. I wokrked commercial before, I "get it". I have no problem I guess if others see differently.
I agree, if it isn't certified to full manuf specs it is a limitation and should be documented as such, then there is no question as to what has been calibrated, no bad assumptions to be made. As I said, or tried to, there are critical measurements everywhere, but in many commercial applications not as critical as in the government labs, not always the case, I wasn't trying to make a sweeping statement just painting the broad strokes. I think we are on the same page though!