Well, it has happened again. The Whore has once again gotten a job outside of the contract PMEL. Now working as a field service engineer for EW testing for B-52s and C-130s. A whole new thing doing software and hardware integration testing at the system level. Now if I can just stay away, somehow I keep getting sucked back in, what a whore.
Keep in touch everyone. Robins is looking for techs, PM me if you want.
And a hippo bird day to you yesterday.
Ha Ha! You funny man! Work at WR, that's Highhhlarious!
"Not even if they were on fire. "
Best of luck, Whore. keep in touch. :-)
Hey.. In this economy.. ANY job is a good job..
I'll bet they are! :wink:
Best of luck to you in your new endeavor! 8-)
So on my way out the door my final paycheck was messed up and I have attached the email thread that discusses the situation. I also had telephone conversations but don't expect any actual resolution. Everyone might want to be aware of what I consider to be some questionable practices.
These guys say people are so important but they actually think they have you by the short and curlies, but they need to be aware that loyalty cuts both ways and screwing with people is not going to do them any favors in the long run.
email:
D,
As I said to you on the phone and believe I made abundantly clear to D, I believe the company has screwed me over. D did say he would check further into it and see where M got the information, that said I would get paid for it but I don't think she got it from anyone. As I told D on the phone, if I had known I would have taken the time off and put it on my timecard and gotten paid for it rather than just getting it added at the end, but while I was employed there I worked right up to the end of the last day, putting in the full effort I could. This is all just part and parcel of the way I and the other supervisors where treated from day one. We had to come into your office and you had to go back to them twice plus the original negotiation we did to get our pay to be 34 cents an hour more than the master tech.
Anyway I do not consider this issue closed and expect D to contact corporate and come back to me with more information. It can't be policy when it is word of mouth via emails that are contradictory, and based on your email it sounds like regardless of when you quit if you have unused personal time you will not be paid for it regardless of the probation period. I am sure all the employees would like to have that information, in a policy, which I am sure the union will have something to say about. Likewise what happens at the end of the contract year? Is it use or loose as well, if so be prepared to have half your workforce out the last week of August and then have people needing time in September that they no longer have accrued.
I look forward to your future response.
RB
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 5:08 PM
To: R B
Cc:
Subject: RE: Nov 4 Pay
Hey R,
I submitted your concerns to Corp. soon after you emailed them to me. I got a partial response that said you would receive a refund on the STD/LTD withholding as soon as they verified your non-selection. Since you haven't seen a deposit yet, I will follow up for you.
I have waited for D's arrival to verify their position on un-used personal time. Per D any employee (to include myself) who quits will NOT receive any reimbursement for unused personal time.
I will get back to you, hopefully Friday, on the status of your reimbursement from the withholding error.
Hope you get your pinched nerve squared away.
D
-----Original Message-----
From: R B
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:22 AM
To:
Cc:
Subject: FW: Nov 4 Pay
D,
I have been out all week with a pinched nerve in my back so I haven't been able to see if you had been given a reply about this situation. I called this morning but M said you were in a meeting, and I realize with the extra audit going on you are probably busy. I checked on line this morning and don't see a deposit for the missing money so I wanted to follow up and see what has been decided. I am going to the hospital this morning for a nerve block treatment but feel free to reply to this email or call my cell and let me know what is going on. M did say she would check with E, I believe, to see if she could find anything out.
Thanks,
R
-----Original Message-----
From:obins.af.mil]
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 12:20 PM
To:
Subject: FW: Nov 4 Pay
D,
Per our conversation, if you could forward as appropriate please.
My final paycheck for the period 10/18 thru 10/31 is incorrect in the following ways:
I had deductions for Long and Short Term disability which I declined taken out for 14.40 and 20.50 respectively.
Additionally, I was not paid for the remainder of my personal time I had on the books. I took 1.5 hours during the pay period but should have been paid for the remaining 5.16 hours as well. Before I left I spoke with M about this and she initially said that I may not get the Oct
3.33 hours as I was leaving before the end of the month, but I left on the last day of the month, and when I mentioned it she agreed that I should get the time. By my calculation that should be an additional
144.07 hourly plus 18.06 bonus, as they break it out on the pay statement, for 162.13.
All in all it looks like I was underpaid 197.03, minus applicable withholding.
I look forward to your reply when they have it corrected and how I will be getting the money, direct deposit preferred, even if it falls on the next scheduled payday.
Thanks,
R
So when I left I thought I would be paid for 5 hours of personal time I had "accrued" during the first 2 months. I actually took 1.5 hours and thought I had 5 hours left. I also had a mistake in my final pay where some additional witholding was taken out for benefits that I didn't take, as did a bunch of folks. Well everybody that was still working there got their reimbursment in the next check but I had an email strin over a month long trying to get my refund as well as getting paid for my 5 hours. In the end I felt obliged to send an email to the top and I am posting it here along with the reply in an effort to see if I am completely off base or if people feel I was done wrong. I bow to the court of public opinion, please post your thoughts, and I will shut up and color. The email is a bit long, I cut and pasted my email above the response for ease of reading:
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:23 PM
To:
Subject: My Final Pay
Mr. M,
I am writing to you in an effort to put this issue to rest.
Hopefully you know by now, that when I left SMR at Robins I was not paid for
my personal time that had been accrued during the first 2 months, nor I have
I received the refund for the LTD and STD that was taken out of my final
paycheck in error. I have been told below that the check is forthcoming for
the refund but it has taken a month now. I specifically asked before I left
if I would be paid for my personal time and was told by M that I
would. During the last week, I took 1.5 hours to go to a Dr appointment but
stayed at work and put forth a full effort right up until the last minute
rather than just taking it off. I felt this was the right thing to do and
made sure I passed on all the things I could and closed as many issues as I
could before I left. Had I known I would not have been paid for it I would
have taken the time off and not been as helpful as I was. I know there was
a lot of talk during the hiring about loyalty and concern that we
supervisors would remain loyal to Kay and Associates and not to SMR, but I
will tell you loyalty is driven by who is paying you and I was loyal to SMR,
but that loyalty has to go both ways and is earned as well but I was working
as hard as I could for you.
This issue has bounced back and forth for a month now and still there is no
resolution. I spoke, quite passionately by phone, with D about it on
the 19th of November while he was at Robins. He did say he would follow up
and let me know, but as of now I have heard nothing. I was actually
probably a bit rude with him on the phone, and I apologize for that, but I
had/still have a pinched nerve in my back which is causing me severe pain in
my leg and I was on some pretty substantial medication at that time. D
told me, in the email below, that Donnie had said it is policy not to be
paid. My problem with that is that at no time was the "policy" ever told to
people or written down. Not that it affects me now but the other employees
need to be made aware of the policy and what happens at the end of the
contract year as well. Does it need to be used or lost or will they be
allowed to carry over some etc. In the past when it had to be used or lost
before the end of the year you lost about half your workforce for the last 3
to 5 days of the year so they could use their time they had managed over the
course of the year. With the opportunity to make up time as well there will
be some folks who will save almost all of their 5 days. Additionally, then
you put everyone in a new hole to start out the new year like it was when
the contract started. This really isn't conducive to meeting the turnaround
time requirement.
Having said that, I do not believe it changes the situation. I told D
that I did not believe I, as well as others, had been treated fairly during
the hiring and transition process. We were told that the manning of the lab
was going to consist of Techs and Senior Techs and that our pay was going to
be based on the Sr. Tech pay, when after it shook out the Master Tech
position still existed and we supervisors were actually getting paid less
than he was, and we had to go back and ask for further compensation. In the
end I was making .35 per hour more than the Master Tech to supervise 19
people which didn't seem equitable.
I spoke again to D about this to let him know how I felt I was
being taken advantage of but knew there was nothing that could be done about
it. I know we had been told that there was an incentive bonus, but we were
never told specifically how much that would/could be or what had to be done
to get it.
I am pretty sure that D and D are both glad to have seen me resign
and move on to other opportunities. I don't think they liked me very much,
no problem, but not to sound arrogant but I was the glue holding the
electronics section and the lab together. I believe I had been placated and
had the carrot of the TOS position waved in front of me with no intention of
ever making me TOS. I will not say that the lab is going to crash without
me and there are some good folks there that will pick up the ball and run
with it, but I will say that I tried my best to make Electronics and the
whole lab run as efficiently as possible and did everything I could to
ensure a cohesive workforce, and the lab had never run better than when I
was in charge, not everyone liked every decision I made but that comes with
the territory. I understand there are some issues with turnaround already
and if you will remember I told you at the beginning we would not be able to
do it with the workforce that was in place, and D said that during the
90 day probation period changes would be made to improve things, I certainly
didn't see any during the first 60 days and don't believe any changes have
been made to make things better. This is not sour grapes in any way. I
have a great new position working as a software test engineer making more
money than when I was a PMEL supervisor but as someone who cares deeply for
PMEL and the people at the Robins Lab I wanted to put in my two cents.
Also, during the interview process I thought it odd that E would
be involved, especially of supervisors, as he was going to be coming back as
a Sr Tech and it seemed somewhat inappropriate. Especially since I know he
had been fed personal information about me, as well as others, before the
contract had been awarded, by M. E and I have a mutual friend
who imparted this information to me. This is probably why I was not
D's favorite person, as even during the interview process he let slip
that he had reservations about me based on some things he had been told. He
should consider his source carefully, that's all I'll say about that.
Additionally, it seems a bit odd that the person that ends up being the site
manager actually came to us in July before the contract was awarded "looking
for a job". We took the time to take him through the lab, showed him things
and actually were going to hire him as a technician.
I guess the bottom line is I would like to be paid for the 5 hours of
personal time that I was not paid for, plus the long and short term
disability premium that was taken out of my last check incorrectly which
still has not been refunded to me. I have been in PMEL since 1976 and
worked for contractors since I retired in 1996 and I am active in the PMEL
community, and SMRs business practice reputation precedes them, please take
this opportunity to show me it is unjustified and treat me right by paying
me what is owed.
Regards,
R
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 11:12 AM
To: ''
Cc: ''
Subject: RE: My Final Pay
R
I have reviewed your complaint's and frankly find few if any merits. SMR
does not post or give employees a policy handbook for internal reasons. My
decision. We will however answer any questions and pretty much tell our
folks how things will run on each job. Every job is different to some
extent due to CBA's local command regs and WD's being different.
SMR does not have any paid out personal time nor does the Union at Robins.
I don't know why you ask M since she was not your employer, but the
answer is we don't pay out untaken personal time. The second part of that
is that you nor anyone else was accruing any personal time. As a Corporate
goodwill decision we decided to allow employees within reason to have Site
Mgr approved personal hours if really required as a favor to employees in
the transition period and I am glad that helped you when you needed it.
Normally no one gets any personal time until after their 90 day probation
time so you actually had a benefit we don't normally allow.
The Master Tech position was a boondoggle and we worked with it as best
we could in the hiring process and we owe no one any explanation of our bid
process or our hiring practices.
E was involved because I ask him to be involved. E and I
have worked several jobs together and I commonly have any employee I chose
from any site help with large hiring sessions. Besides E is my friend.
I know of no ill will information or comments from E regarding anyone on
the job, He did help me with numbers count and site format data which he was
aware of from many people's input. Again I won't answer to anyone other
than a customer for my personnel selections or placements.
I don't know where you are getting your SMR reputation info but is not from
AFMETCAL and our employees nor from our customers if it has any negatives in
it.
I know you think you should be paid for your perceived personal time balance
but the fact is you were allowed personal time at the discretion of the Site
Manager when there was actually no program or policy personal time assigned
to the contract. Again I am happy the time you took helped but you will not
be paid for any perceived untaken personal time.
If there are any short term or long term disability issues still existing I
will call for a report and insure that you get anything coming to you. I
wish you well in your new employment and I hope the companies business
practices and policies meet with your approval.
Best to you in your future endeavors.
L
Whore,
You're putting quite a bit of effort into something that has already happened and, if broken, doesn't look like it's going to get fixed.
I don't know from sour grapes, but I will say SMR has a reputation of being tough on employees, deserved or not. I'm not AFMETCAL, a customer or an employee, but I've heard some less than complimentary things about them.
While contracting PMELs IS a business, it's a business that has to have people that are willing to give 110%. They'll do that if they think the company has their back. If they think their just a number (and not a very big number), that's what the company, any company, will get back.
Makes me want to run out and apply...
I think Mr Whore is saying to other bases ... if you need a few quality technicians or just one tell him the K area and he can put you in touch with some qualified people who for some relocation assistance would gladly abandon the Titanic that is inches away from an iceberg.
He may also be encouraging his former coworkers to saddle up and ride out.
fyi boondoggle ... do useless, wasteful, or trivial work
work of little or no value done merely to look busy
Whore was only making 34 cents an hour more than this person who was paid handsomely to look busy. Mr M clearly doesn't think much of the boondoggle person.
Freezer, I saw on weather channel this morning your high was sub zero. Do you believe in global warming?
Quote from: griff61 on 12-10-2010 -- 17:40:09
Makes me want to run out and apply...
Apply to work at SMR? Nah you can't. They don't have Robins according to their website. Whore already worked for them for 60 days and they still haven't acknowledged the new shanty they moved into.
http://www.smrservices.com/corporateprofile.html
http://www.smrservices.com/pages/4/page4.html?refresh=1146858400005
Quote from: Broken_Wings link=topic=1824. msg15764#msg15764 date=1292024777
Freezer, I saw on weather channel this morning your high was sub zero. Do you believe in global warming?
Yep, High of -5F tomorrow. It's snowing like the Dickens right now, and the wind chill is supposed to be -30 in the morning. Think i'll do a little bow hunting. . . let you know how I did. :-D
I believe. . . but not today.
Things like this really highlight the need and importance for a labor union at contract labs. The management company was awarded the contract by virtue of being the lowest bidder so they sure aren't going to be overly generous with pay, benefits or benevolence.
A well written labor agreement with a binding resolution process goes a LONG way in protecting both the workers and management. I am sure that all aspects of this disagreement would have been covered in the contract so these problems would not be an issue now.
You would think that the companies that have had that contract at Robins would treat and pay their employees a little better. I have heard that a lot jump over to the civil service side of the house. Also the AF is getting what they pay for. They award contracts to some of these fly by night companies that come in and low ball the current contractor that try to do more with less and they do less with less and provide an inferior product.
From what I have seen and heard most of the AMC contract labs are struggling. I believe Rohmann Services have their contracts. Dover failed their AFMETCAL audit and was looking for people. I know Andrews was looking for a site manager for the longest time. To me that's just sad.
Well, AMC moved thier fiber support from Andrews to the blue suit Maguire AFB...
I have not heard much good from SMR, but when bean counters run the show....
If thier contract fails too many audits, it will go by the wayside, and another company will move in..there aren't enough GI's to take them over
Mike
OlDave,
Robins actually is organized under the IAM. I however was not covered by the CBA as I was a supervisor. But if you read the reply I was sent it appears that they won't be paying out anybody regardless of CBA or not, and I don't know if it is specifically addressed in the CBA. Can you spell grievance?
Quote from: obp42 link=topic=1824. msg15768#msg15768 date=1292080560
You would think that the companies that have had that contract at Robins would treat and pay their employees a little better. I have heard that a lot jump over to the civil service side of the house. Also the AF is getting what they pay for. They award contracts to some of these fly by night companies that come in and low ball the current contractor that try to do more with less and they do less with less and provide an inferior product.
From what I have seen and heard most of the AMC contract labs are struggling. I believe Rohmann Services have their contracts. Dover failed their AFMETCAL audit and was looking for people. I know Andrews was looking for a site manager for the longest time. To me that's just sad.
How they treat the work force does not make them a fly by night company.
Every contractor that has been here, has had to do more with less.
Inferior product? The company does not provide the product, those of us on the bench do. As far as I know, we are using the same K-procedures, T. O. s, and standards as you, everyone else in the AF world of PMEL.
QuoteHow they treat the work force does not make them a fly by night company.
IMO, how they treat the workforce is certainly a factor in whether I consider them a fly-by-night company. Or, with a lack of any other evidence, how they treat their workforce goes a long way in making up the sleaze factor. There's some in every company, and the goal is to not get too much on you. I'm sure there are companies out there that insist on the highest standards of excellence, provide nothing but the best in equipment and processes, and still treat their people like crap. On the other hand, there are probably companies that are excellent to their employees, bend over backwards to attract and retain the best talent the PMEL pool can offer, but have such a laissez-faire attitude about the work that the lab consistently turns out crap. I think both of these examples are extreme cases, and most companies fall somewhere near the median in that bell curve. From what I know and have heard about SMR, they apparently pride themselves on barely meeting the minimum requirements of the contract while squeezing their employees every way they can, and Whore's experience with them only reinforces this impression. So, in my world, they're at the tail of the curve, which is not a place I'd like to be.
Every contractor that has been here, has had to do more with less.
Inferior product? The company does not provide the product, those of us on the bench do. [/quote]
i disagree. they knew what they were doing when they put in a bid for the contract. the "more with less" was self imposed. In the end, the company will make their money, normally at the expense of the workers.
Very well said Geek.
I have heard pretty much the same things about SMR (and feel the same way that you do about them).
Quote from: jimmyc on 12-13-2010 -- 09:45:45
Every contractor that has been here, has had to do more with less.
Inferior product? The company does not provide the product, those of us on the bench do.
i disagree. they knew what they were doing when they put in a bid for the contract. the "more with less" was self imposed. In the end, the company will make their money, normally at the expense of the workers.
[/quote]
In the mid 70's, Collins International had the contract for Kelly AFB in San Antonio, Texas. They low balled the contract to get in the door. Then they pissed off the techs, so that the techs unionized. That brought the wages up. And because of the way the contract was written. Back then the government had to eat it. They porbable do not do that with todays contracts.
Let me start by saying my earlier comments were not meant as an insult to the bench techs who work in contract labs. I would never roll over on my fellow PMEL techs. My distrust and dislike is with some of the companies that run some of these labs. They play a big factor in the quality of the product that goes out the door. They provide a lot of the tools we use to produce a superior product. They put out the quality manuals, the forms and many other tools that we need to be successful and put out a quality product. I don't like companies that push quantity over quality. I don't like to be rushed to get stuff out the door. I've worked in blue suit labs and contract labs. While I was a blue suiter I had to send troops on manning assists to bail out civil service/MEO labs. There is good and bad in blue suit, civil service and contract labs. I'm not saying any one entity is better than the other.
Companies like Raytheon, SMR and Rohmann all have a track record of under performing. They have very bad reputations in the PMEL community and I hate to see when they get a contract. Raytheon I think has failed at every PMEL contract they have. The most recent failure was at Feltwell. Yulista had to pick up the contract to help them out. SMR has failed at Andrews, Dover and Maxwell that I know of. These are the kind of companies that I refer to as fly by night.
Let me say I appreciate all the comments and PMs is support of my position. While I am not getting my 5 hours of pay, I feel vindicated in the court of public opinion, it was never about the money. Based on your replies it is clear that I was not off base in my statement of the companies reputation preceeding them, as many of you seem to have the same opinion, and I don't know any of you. We'll see how things go here at Robins, AFMETCAL audit in March should be interesting.
Just wanted to make a post so this thread would pop back up on the front page again. I referenced it in a post on another thread and wanted it to be easy to find. Not to mention I want this to be out there for a long time to come. Not to be childish, but they started it.
I agree as we bid
on Tinker and FE Warren and lost both bids to SMR/Rohmann Services and we do not know how they would be able to do job with such a low bid, that is why we didn't even try the Robins bid.
Mr or Mrs Whore did you ever get your STD/LTD money?
Good to hear you are still out there. Don't think I want to get into the contract business again either. From what I hear they are worse with abusing and trashing the techs. Tired of that crap.
Looking at property over at Ft Hood.
Later bud
bumped as promised