PMEL Forum

Just wondering. I am thinking about going to school.

Many people with military experience may have the Associates Degree (mine is an AAS from CCAF), but don't know of many 4 year degree programs in the US....

If you already have cal/PMEL training in the military, you really don't need the civilian metrology training. If you want a degree to help further your marketability I'd recommend a BSEE or BSME. You'd be much further ahead with an egineering degree in conjunction with your PMEL training. A lot of companies who advertise for jobs we'd probably be a good match for are usually looking for the engineering degree. PMEL + BSEE/ME would be golden.

The only "metrology degree" I could find is the BSQA with Measurement Science option at California State University Dominguez Hills ( www.csudh.edu).  I am finishing the prerequisites and plan to formally apply to the program soon.

It is an "online program" but there are a lot of lower division classes that have to be met that require labs and such.   There is also an upper division "Analog Electronics" course requirement that has to be met but is not available online.  ( Do you have any idea how few colleges offer Analog anything any more?)

There are courses in Electrical, Physical and Dimensional Metrology as well as Measurement Uncertainty and Quality Assurance course work to go with it.

With working full time and going to school in the evenings, it took me three years to complete the lower division courses and probably looking at three more for the full BS.

Just for the record, I have the military experience (Lowry Honor grad )but all my schools fell between the cracks for ACE credit.

If you have any questions that I can answer drop me a line .

Here's a link to some more schools that offer Metrology and related majors:

http://www.callabmag.com/schools.html#etUSA (http://www.callabmag.com/schools.html#etUSA)

I voted "No degree" because I don't have a degree in metrology. One of my degrees is in Physics; that and engineering degrees would probably serve you better for a couple of reasons.

1) Those degrees are more widely recognized so more marketable to civilian employers.

2) Those degrees give you a great fallback should you decide to leave the PMEL world or want to move over to another area within, such as designing test equipment.

What I'm going to say, I hope pisses anyone off. I work hand in hand with both mech. & elec. engineers, and I find it odd that I have explain what I consider basic concepts. I'm quite happy and proud I might add, that I am a PMEL tech. I am able to work quite a bit of the Metrology spectrum.
                                             Terry

I have a Bachelors of Science Degree from the University of Maryland. Computer Science and Business Management. (wonder where that will take me?)

If everything counted I have enough credit for a Masters Degree (140 hours of formal education).  But lower level and vocational credit does not count for higher education.

I am proud to say I finished my degree while I was deployed to Bosnia.  I took my last 3 classes in the field (i.e an air conditioned truck with satellite access to the Internet.)

If you are looking to get into Metrology without joining the military  or you are looking to get a degree to further you career; I recommend you get a degree in Physics with an emphasis in statistics.

You will still need some OJT, but everything we do is physics and statistics related.   

I know that Fluke Corp.  is constantly looking for people who are qualified in Metrology.   This is the first I've heard of a degree that is specific to the field.   We encourage all who are trained in the metrology field to view our website and apply to any jobs that we have in that area.   We offer competitive pay and host a wide variety of talented individuals in the field.   www. fluke. com

There are actually several colleges across the county that offer a degree in Metrology. There is a college in Butler Pennsylvania one in Georgia ( Georgia Technical) and one in California that I know of. I believe there are 5 schools total. I have over 15 years experience trained by the Marines.

Quote from: USMCPMEL on 09-14-2010 -- 09:50:15
There are actually several colleges across the county that offer a degree in Metrology. There is a college in Butler Pennsylvania one in Georgia ( Georgia Technical) and one in California that I know of. I believe there are 5 schools total. I have over 15 years experience trained by the Marines.

Here's a relatively complete list of Metrology/Metrology related programs from Cal Lab Magazine.

http://www.callabmag.com/schools.html#etUSA

I do not have a metrology degree.  With 20 years experence, CCT certificate and multiple classes.  I have warm fuzzes that I am doing calibrations with confidence. . . . . with a approximately 95% confidence level with a coverage factor of K=2

Quote from: adamt on 01-05-2011 -- 17:22:15
. . . . . with a approximately 95% confidence level with a coverage factor of K=2

'~95% confidence with a coverage factor of k = 2' means 1 in 20 calibrations are possibly bogus! In the old days (e.g., during the height of the US Space Program, when 99.74% or k = 3 was the norm), this would be totally unacceptable, due to the low confidence! ~2.5 failures per thousand was the norm then or about 20 times less likely than today to be erroneous!

Most 2d LTs had degrees, took them several years to attain the proficiency of a decent NCO.

Measure,

You must be a oldtimer!  Good luck finding an Accredited cal lab that will give you a cert that is 99.73 or K=3.  Tolorances are so tight now that you are doing good to be 4 to 1 now days instead of 10 to 1.

Quote from: measure on 04-10-2012 -- 15:08:10

Quote from: adamt on 01-05-2011 -- 17:22:15
. . . . . with a approximately 95% confidence level with a coverage factor of K=2

'~95% confidence with a coverage factor of k = 2' means 1 in 20 calibrations are possibly bogus! In the old days (e.g., during the height of the US Space Program, when 99.74% or k = 3 was the norm), this would be totally unacceptable, due to the low confidence! ~2.5 failures per thousand was the norm then or about 20 times less likely than today to be erroneous!

Quote from: adamt on 04-12-2012 -- 18:07:05
Measure,

You must be a oldtimer!  Good luck finding an Accredited cal lab that will give you a cert that is 99.73 or K=3.  Tolorances are so tight now that you are doing good to be 4 to 1 now days instead of 10 to 1.

Quote from: measure on 04-10-2012 -- 15:08:10

Quote from: adamt on 01-05-2011 -- 17:22:15
. . . . . with a approximately 95% confidence level with a coverage factor of K=2

'~95% confidence with a coverage factor of k = 2' means 1 in 20 calibrations are possibly bogus! In the old days (e.g., during the height of the US Space Program, when 99.74% or k = 3 was the norm), this would be totally unacceptable, due to the low confidence! ~2.5 failures per thousand was the norm then or about 20 times less likely than today to be erroneous!

I guess I am an "old timer," in somebody's book. I remember when a 'digital readout' was a vertical row of numbers, each individually backlit (depending on the input frequency), with an incandescent bulb (HP 524A counter). Or the very first digital multimeter commercially produced, employing a servo motor to spin what was essentially a clone of a car odometer as a means to indicate the input voltage (Non-Linear Systems X-1). Or using the K-3 pot (L&N 7553) to measure DC voltage at the then unheard of uncertainty of ±0.01%! What has changed in the metrology world? Now we're all statisticians!

I don't have time to read the thread to see how it wandered to the above topic area.  But when I worked at RCA Automated Systems, there was an elderly gentleman (he may still be alive, so out of respect for his privacy, I won't mention his name).  I remember he had run a high level research department.  He used to show us his patent folder (it was really full - so the guy was a true genius type).  His was one of the names on the patent for LORAN-A at RCA.  His was the name on the patent for the original rotating ball flow meter on the old fashioned gas pumps of yesteryear.  But the relevant point for this thread was that he had a Bachelors degree from George Washington University in Metrology Engineering, which I don't believe they have offered in a few decades.  Really cool guy.  He lost his department in the 70s when he refused tofalsify time sheets.  They gave him a desk in the calibration lab, at a huge aerospace R&D site with nearly 20,000 instruments in the database.  Every time someone bought new test equipment, he had to approve it and he reviewed what model was being bought to try and standardize where possible and avoid unnecessary duplication.  Great lab to work at, but long gone.

Colleges are beginning to consider our military education a degree. The best advice is to pursue an EE, physics or ME degree if right out of military and you think you need degree to become employed.
In industry to stamp a drawing and approve a P&ID print a PE is required, that takes years of apprenticeship under a PE (professional engineer).Jr. ME and EE are only CAD operators in most companies. If you want to get dirty and actually build something Electrical Controls trade is a good place to start.
What I look for with a contractor for automation or instrumentation is ISA background or Electrical I&E experience with a Journeymans license. Many degreed EE' s are not worth it. Military training is best for some types of calibrations and especially the difficult working conditions surrounding field measurement. My employers consider me degreed as well as our local college. I am a Navy ET, Master Electrician, they call me a field or Service Engineer in the instrument and measurement industry. I have taught in college, upper level classes and I have been employed or contracted in the measurement industry for past 20 years.  If you know how to read a manual and can turn a screw driver in correct direction understand troubleshooting; basic logic and can write a letter on a computer you dont need degree. With military calibration background you can...Get to work! The frat boys in charge rarely know what side of the earth the sun comes up on they need your help.

hmm.. 6% with a degree.. I am going to start telling people I am part of the 6% precenters.. Not quite as cool as being on of the 1% precenters but hey, what geek club is ever cool.

Quote from: CalLabSolutions on 08-22-2012 -- 17:23:32
hmm.. 6% with a degree.. I am going to start telling people I am part of the 6% precenters.. Not quite as cool as being on of the 1% precenters but hey, what geek club is ever cool.

You have a Metrology Degree?

Griff, you caught me..  No, I don't think any one offers a Metrology Degree.  Most the people I know in this industry have a Physics Degree.   

Me well I officially have a business management degree.  But I also have enough classes to have a masters degree.  University of Maryland would accept any CS class in their Business Degree program.  So I am more of a CS major with some business management classes.

Mike

Like many, I have an Associates Degree Applied Science, Georgia Military College.  Many associated college courses, i.e.computer programming, but none connected towards a BS.  (a lot could be made of that).  A lot has been made of having a Metrology Degree, but no one seems to really offer one.  Too many parameters involved for something very few really know what they are.

Got the Associates but havent found a 4yr program.

School I attended.  Quick and easy really for any PMEL Tech.

http://www.centralgatech.edu/catalog/section6/te/ME13.htm

Do you find that degree usefull? Or is it just a piece of paper? Were you able to get that doine in under 2 years?

Not to belittle the work anybody has done to get their certification, whatever that may be.  I know those of us that have attended military schools worked pretty hard to get to where we are and I'm sure that people that have "attended" Central Georgia Tech have worked hard as well.  IMO the military programs are waaay better than any "degree" you can get from this esteemed facility of higher learning.  As we have all discussed in theis forum before, there is a distinct difference between commercial cal and military cal programs and I believe this program is better preperation for a commercial path.  I have never found the need to have a degree in metrology important, and I have been on both sides of the hiring process, but some school is important along with experience.  The degree isn't going to get you more money when it comes down to a job in calibration.

Quote from: Skippy on 08-28-2012 -- 06:20:44
The degree isn't going to get you more money when it comes down to a job in calibration.

I would disagree.  It depends on where you work.  If you work as a "3rd Party Cal House" it may not make a difference but if you do cals internally for some companies a degree is the difference between being, lets say, a "Test Tech" or "Test Engineer".  In my company thats could be as much as a 40k pay difference. 

@USMCPMEL-Yes I found it usefull but much of it I already new but it has allowed me to get into many "Front Doors".  Yes you can do it in less than 2 years.  Depends on the school load you want to take.